A Weighty Matter – RV weights, tire pressure and such
“How much do you weigh” is not thought to be the best way to start a conversation. In fact, with the female populace it could be an outright dangerous proposal. Amongst RV’ers, however, it can be a relaxed and accepted topic of conversation and indeed, a rather important one too. You see, how much you weigh can lead to other exciting topics such as tire pressure or loading options which will not only add years to the lifetime of your home, but can improve gas mileage and “save your butt” on the downhills. An overloaded RV can even void an insurance claim, so that’s all the more reason to know your numbers. So, how does one actually do this with a behemoth such as ours?
Well, the easiest way to weigh something is to place it on a scale. As it turns out that’s exactly what you do with an RV. You just need really, really big scales and a wide area to drive the monster onto. In to save the day come the truckers. These folks have been weighing for years, and their scales are actually open to anyone. Many of the major truck-stops such as Flying J’s or Pilots will have them (or you can look up your nearest CAT scale location here) and most of them will weigh front and rear axles independently. So, just mosey on in between the truckers, squeeze your rear wheels onto the scale and ask to be weighed. $9 and 5 minutes later you’ll have your poundage in all it’s glory.
As it turns out we weigh 11,820 lbs on our front axle and 20,400 lbs on our rear axle and that’s with 3/4 tank full of fresh water and LP and a full load of gas….almost fully-loaded so to speak. A quick reference to the RV manual lets us know we need to keep 105 psi of pressure in in our two front tires and 92 psi in each of our 4 rear tires for optimal performance. So, that’s how we keep our butts in shape, RV-speaking.
Nina,
I was reviewing your RV tips to take some notes on. I was disappointed when I found out that this particular post had no comments from people. This to me is the most important topic when RVing (the weight categories). I learned this lesson the hard way when we purchased the pop up camper. My wife and I fell in love with the floor plan since it had both a shower and a toilet. Basically all I knew back then was that the wife didn’t want to go tent camping anymore due to one rainy trip and wanted a RV. The salesman made our Delta 88 GVWR the same as the GVWR as the pop up camper. It was tough to tow this way. Later when we purchased a van, the pop up camper was much easier to tow.
About purchasing the travel trailer – this is why I am trying to be as flexible as much as I can about choosing between the Arctic Fox 25R and a Travel Unit model. The Arctic Fox TT has a CCC of 3,995 with a GVWR of 10,000. I was about to make a major mistake months ago on the tow vehicle again since I had wanted to stick with a GMC Savana Van (I like the storage space in the back since we have the extended version) with a GWVR 10,000. Then, I re-read the weight definitions in my notes and realized that I wasn’t including the tow vehicle’s own weight in the GVWR. So I found a tow vehicle with a GVWR of 20,000. So the proposed system is to have a tow vehicle with 20,000 GVWR and a TT with a 10,000 GVWR with a minimum 3,995 CCC. The tow vehicle will have less than 17,000 pounds (counting the TT weight) and the travel trailer is less than 9,000 pounds. This is without including the water though. Dry camping and full hook ups we wouldn’t need to carry water as most dry camping campgrounds have spigots based on my past experience. Boondocking wise we would try to fill it up the fresh water tank as close to the boondocking spot that we can find. So how hard will it be to climb the mountains out west with these weight limits or are we going to need a bigger GVWR for the tow vehicle? We would be 3,000+ pounds under the maximum of 20,000 pounds on the tow vehicle. The TT would be roughly 53% of the combined GVWR.
Right now I am at 2,544 CCC wise out of the 2,995 goal for the travel trailer using 1 of the person’s 11 numbers. The category is the wife’s clothing as I did mine already. His clothing figure was 250 for the wife, which seems high to me as my total came to 50+ pounds less than his. The food category went well over his 90 pounds with me being over 200 with more to add. I am within a few pounds one way or the other in his categories other than fauceting and kitchen. I did go over his faucet number by 37 pounds. Since he didn’t have a parts category combined with the tools and toolbox category I did go over his figure that way a little. I haven’t put on things such as generator, internet satellite dish, and vent free propane heater on the CCC yet. Since you upgraded the solar power to 1,500 watts, have you really found a need to use your generator yet as it is around 75 pounds according to what I read online? The numbers for either the TT or tow vehicle will be coming down 75 – 115 pounds depending on how many Grape 265 watt solar panels Marvin can put on the top of the TT. I was thinking to have 4 120 watts portable solar panels anyways so I can have the flexibility to get solar when trees are in the way. This would be like the equivalent of not having the DirecTV on the roof.
I finished the tow vehicle GVWR. I finished with less than 500 pounds worth of real merchandise. I found links stating how many pounds the maps are and books that I have and want to take along. I kept the 4 120 watts portable solar panels so I can have the flexibility to get solar when trees are in the way. This would be like the equivalent of not having the DirecTV on the roof. So 2 265 watts Grape solar panels came off the travel trailers CCC. I might be able to meet my 3,000 combine weight for merchandise. However, I could go over double that if I really wanted to.
I am still debating on including the washer/dryer combo (currently in the numbers) since even at full hook ups it would take a ton of loads to do the laundry based on what Nikki Wynn says on the video. On this video link, Nikki Wynn seemed to be suggesting that all she can get in the Splendide washer/dryer is 3 bath towels, 1 hand towel, and 2 wash cloths.
http://www.gonewiththewynns.com/easy-rv-laundry
The person that I am using for the weight categories had a bathroom category weight of 45 pounds while initially I came up with 43.5 pounds so I am in the ballpark on his figure. I found a towel link whereby a complete towel set (bathroom towel, hand towel, and wash cloth) is 550 grams, which is close to 1.2 pounds. The Splendide washer/dryer is suppose to wash 15 pounds and dry 12 pounds if my memory is correct. Based on my figures Nikki should have been able to do 9 towel sets – way more than she claimed. I did find my 211 pound washer/dryer combo link, but it says only 4.3 cubic feet, not how many pounds that it can wash and dry. The Splendide washer/dryer doesn’t list cubic feet so I can’t do an apple to apple comparison without phoning up. I heard that Splendide customer service isn’t that good based on internet links. So either Nikki has very heavy towels or Splendide numbers are wrong on what they can wash and dry. So what is the real deal if you have a Splendide model? It just doesn’t seem to add up to me. This is a lot of weight for one item so that is why I mentioned it on this post.
I formed weight spreadsheets for both the tow vehicle and travel trailer. So it is easy to add or subtract items depending on how I feel or if I purchase items in the future (get the weight of the item when purchased or before if possible). Basically after getting my lists formed every item will have to justify its inclusion by how heavy the item weighs along with how frequently the item will get used not to mention if I really need it in an emergency situation. I realize that everyone’s needs are different as well.
Yes, I am taking things a lot more seriously on RVing than the first time as I want everything to go as smoothly as possible.
Health wise, I wasn’t real happy when my doctor told me that swimming was a lot better health wise compared to hiking when I asked about that recently. However, I found a link that says that I would be better off hiking since I would be hiking more hours than swimming.
I’m not too familiar with the size of trucks needed to pull TT’s. With our 400HP Cummins we’ve been fine with our weight, but I don’t know exactly how that translates into TT’s or 5th wheels.
I recommend some links focused on towables. For example:
http://www.learntorv.com/p/what-can-i-tow.html
Plus I’d really recommend asking this question on an RV forum so you’ll get multiple inputs from experienced owners. Here’s a good example thread:
http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php?topic=41748.0
Nina
Nina,
It is greatly appreciated what you do on your RV blog.
Basically I was going to post 5 links for your fellow bloggers only to see that they deleted 2 more Facebook posts to bring the total up to 5 on this topic. I was researching some travel trailers that met my specifications after my last post on here and came up with some nice 5th wheels that was close or exceded their CCC goal. It doesn’t seem that they want a discussion on this issue.
http://roadslesstraveled.us/choosing-trailer-full-time-rving-cargo-carrying-capacity/
The portable solar panels are very costly so those would have to be purchased after we started full timing .
I am now down to 29.5 feet for the travel trailer. I was hoping that somehow it could stay at or below 27 feet. This would enable me to save $111 – $17 per night at a couple of campgrounds. This would pay to stay at a full hook up campsite one night to do maintenance and dumping of the tanks.
Nina,
I’m not certain exactly sure where to put this, but this is a weighty issue which is the title of the post.
In the past you mentioned not to put the refrigerator in a slide out. There are a couple of questions that I have about this. Exactly what else is in your slide out and how long is that particular slide out that you have? I was thinking about putting the 3 foot wide refrigerator (previously listed the link on here) along with a dinette in a slide out for layout purposes so that is why I am asking the question. I could always reverse the dinette and refrigerator so that the refrigerator wouldn’t have to be in the slide out, but would like it in the slide out so it could be next to the kitchen and want easy access to the kitchen cabinets. My slide out would be 9 feet long not counting the walls to give an idea of how big the proposed slide out system is. There is another proposed slide out with just the bed and perhaps a couple of night stands and linen closet or more storage cabinets.
I did get the proposed travel trailer down to 27 feet. The only thing is that I would have to give up the 3 foot refrigerator along with bringing the pantry down to 1 foot wide among other things to give up as well. I will have to take measurements of our basement stairs pantry area to make a real apple to apple comparison on this to what we have currently (have food down in the basement as well and not looking forward to giving up the deep freezer). I am going to have to make a decision on whether if this is worth it to get in all national park campgrounds plus other campgrounds along with saving $11 – $17 per night in a couple of places besides saving gas or better off with the 5 or 6 nice features inside the travel trailer. For now I am keeping it at 28.5 feet. The hitch is potentially another 4 inches bigger than I put it for (minimum on the 28.5 figure). Hopefully Travel Units can have some input on how to make it nicer.
Emily and Mark Fagan should realize that the second that you decide to go RVing that you have to make compromises or trade offs if you prefer in one form or another. I did find some fifth wheels at 4,750+ and a couple were over the 5,000 CCC mark that they were looking for while researching for travel trailers that met my specifications. Yes, it was a disappointing that 5 posts got deleted. Not everyone wants to RV in the same way that you do. What works for you may or may not work for others depending upon the circumstances. If they want to carry the water and thus more weight in their RV, then more power to them. However, they shouldn’t be complaining about their weight and delete posts that say people can do it differently and get better gas mileage to boot by carrying less weight. If you purchase a motor home, then either you have to set up the motor home everyday provided that you sight see away from the campground or purchase a tow vehicle and maintain two engines for just one example of a trade off. There is nothing wrong with that, but you have to realize it. There is no such thing as a perfect RV and my proposed travel trailer system is the same way. What my proposed system will do however is to enable me to live the dream as comfortably as I can make it though as I see fit. After having gone tent camping and camping with a pop up camper I am looking forward to full time RVing with a travel trailer provided that everything works out for the best for us.
BTW can you recommend 5 general RV books to read once the football season ends? I have read 5 already and would like to read some more. I did find that the books didn’t cover everything in detail that I would like in one book, but put all together did a decent job. I did take notes on the books and would again on any new information that I read about provided that I find it interesting or potentially useful in the way that I want to go RVing. Even if you do some things differently than I would, I have gained quite a bit of information off your blog and thanks for sharing it.
Our Fridge in is in our big drivers side slide which is around 15-foot long and 4-feet deep. It is (by far) our largest slide which is part of what made it a problem w/ the heavy fridge in it.
As for books, I like pretty much everything written by John & Kathy Huggins:
So, you want to be an RVer?
So, You Want to be a Workamper
I also enjoyed this book when we first started out. It’s several years dated now, but I think it still has some useful info:
The Complete Book of Boondock RVing: Camping Off the Beaten Path
And of course if you want to learn about mobile internet, this book from our friends Chris & Cherie is IMHO the best out there:
The Mobile Internet Handbook: 2016 US RVers Edition
Hopefully that gives you some choices.
Nina
Nina,
Thanks for the book recommendations. Unfortunately both of Huggin’s books aren’t on the Michigan interlibrary loan system. I wasn’t really sure how much information that I would get out of the Workamper book as I am not interested in workamping or volunteering if we full time RV, but would read it if I can find a copy based on your recommendation. One book that I read was supposed to be about RVing in retirement and spent too much time on the volunteering and workamping issues. I did read two books by the Moeller’s including the one you listed. The one you listed is the best one so far that I’ve read. As I previously wrote on here unfortunately nobody has donated a book to a Michigan public library for the Mobile Internet Handbook any edition yet. I wrote small reviews on the books that I did read in case I have a future blog. Based on one of the Huggins books I came up with some more potential books to read. However, my local library only could get 6 out of the 14 books that I wanted to read last year with two more that Michigan libraries have that I will read next year. So I will attempt to read each book provided that my local library can get a hold of a copy. On the Mobile Internet Handbook book I will purchase the 2019 edition if one isn’t donated by then.
I was saddened to read about the incident on the main blog the other day. I’m glad that Paul, you, and the pets are ok. On October 23rd a deer darted in front of my Savana van. I only had 3 – 5 feet in front of me and swerved to avoid it. Unfortunately the van was still considered a total loss as the company didn’t want to risk potential unseen damage. I ended up with leasing a 2017 Honda CRV. I loved my Savana van and will miss it a ton as it was paid for.
Nina,
I know that this isn’t a motor home issue. However, it would be greatly appreciated if you can ask about it when you get your motor home fixed in Florida for me as I don’t have faith in my local RV dealership in giving me the correct answer.
On this link, General Motors says that you have to include the GVWR of the travel trailer when calculating out the tongue weight percentage and should be 10% – 15%:
http://www.gmc.com/gmc-life/trucks/why-tongue-weight-is-important-for-safe-towing.html
On this link, it says that the tongue weight percentage should be 5% – 10% of the travel trailer GVWR:
http://www.answers.com/Q/The_tongue_weight_of_a_trailer_should_be_what_percent_of_the_Gross_Trailer_Weight_Rating_GTWR?#slide=2
In the book that I read it seemed that it should be 10% – 15%, but that was just the weight of the travel trailer and didn’t include the CCC.
So far I have 22 or so travel trailers that have a CCC of 3,000+ and not one meets that 10% – 15% standard that GM says must be met for the tongue weight percentage. Using the GM standard, the 22 travel trailers range from .044 – .096. Based on GM percentages, then the tongue weight should be at least 1,000 pounds for a travel trailer 10,000 GVWR. I can find only one on my list that is 1,000+ pounds, but it has a GVWR of 11,000+ so it doesn’t meet the GM standard. So if GM is right, how can the RV industry do that since that would be a safety issue since the travel trailer would be swaying a lot? I know that I want Travel Units to be the company to build my travel trailer to my specifications, but I must have a back up travel trailer plan in case my dream travel trailer proves to be too costly for us.
I did read several RV forums, but there seems to be conflicting information on them on this issue.
I am not expecting you to go out of your way in doing this, but just at the RV repair or collision shop.
Thanks,
Ralph
Really sorry Ralph. The Collision Repair shop we’re currently in only deals with Class A’s, so they had no info for you.
Nina
Nina,
Thanks for trying. I will add that to my list of questions that I have for Travel Units when I eventually go down there.
My wife and I are considering getting a Class A RV and are confused about load carrying capacity, ie the difference between GVWR and GCWR. In almost all the coaches we’ve looked at GCWR minus GVWR equals 4,000 lbs or the load carrying capacity of the coach. That amount of weight is, as we understand it, composed of fuel, water (fresh, water heater, some black/grey) propane, the towed vehicle, passengers, cargo, food, etc. When we add up the weight of full tanks of fuel and water, the towed vehicle and two adults we come to over 4,000 lbs and we haven’t added any food, clothing, gear, etc. Are we missing something in the math or is everyone out there driving overweight?
What you actually want to look at for carrying capacity is GVWR and UVW. Let me try and see if I can easily describe the details:
GCWR = Gross Combined Weight Rating = max allowed weight of motorhome PLUS towable product.
GVWR = Gross Vehicle Weight Rating = max allowed weight of fully loaded motorhome with everything in it (people, propane, water, food, everything), but EXCLUDING the tow vehicle.
UVW = unloaded vehicle weight = weight of motorhome as manufactured with fuel, engine oil and coolant. It does not include cargo, water, propane, or dealer-installed accessories.
So, what you can actually carry in your motorhome is this:
CCC = Cargo Carrying capacity = GVWR – (UVW + water, propane, people, dealer-installed accessories)
Make sense?
For many coaches the CCC will end up at only a few thousand pounds and yeah…many coaches come close to the full numbers. But hopefully you can end up with some wiggle room.
Nina
Burt,
I was hoping that Nina would reply before me. You should probably give her your budget, length of RV, gas or diesel, tank sizes, other specifications that you want.
I have a friend with a Class A motorhome and he doesn’t carry any water with traveling. With full hook ups water isn’t needed to be carried while traveling. At dry camping campgrounds the vast majority have water, but you would want to double check your particular spot that you want to camp or get it close to the campground. Boondocking on my year one list of 9 spots the vast majority I knew where I could get water for free and wouldn’t be out of my way. So there are ways to reduce weight as mentioned previously. Not carrying water has extra benefits such as getting better gas mileage for the RV and putting less stress on the RV. I realize that this might not be for everyone, but it is one way to camp.
I didn’t have any difficulty in locating some with 7,500 and 5,000:
https://winnebagoind.com/products/class-a-gas/2017/vista/specification
Plus if you are rich and want to go big, Winnebago has some that are over 15,000 on their website.
First, it seems like that I can post from home again since Windows updated the other day. So that is a gas saver and can reply to topics that interest me right away instead of waiting to go to the library.
I’m glad to be still alive since I had a hard time breathing for one hour or so on December 5. Then, came the snow storm on Sunday and took me until Wednesday to recover from shoveling (no wonder I want to full time RV).
Anyways back onto this issue, I read that people might want a 2 – 3 days worth of an emergency water supply in the fresh water tank in the current book that I am reading. Based on Nina’s and the Moeller’s book, then that would be roughly 14.28 – 36 gallons of water that people might want to carry.
I did decide to reduce driving time down to 8 hours recently as well.
Nina, how much RV experience should people have to be able to go to Alaska since that is one of my dreams? I had quite a bit of regular tent camping experience before marriage. We did go on a 5 and 6 week pop up camper vacations besides going to other places. I was hoping to add the Dalton Hwy. to my Alaska dream list of places to do.
Sometimes it feels like the smart thing to do though is to save the $10 grand, fly to the Philippines where my wife is from, go to beach resorts such as Boracay and visit her relatives.
For the water number above, it was for two people.